This is precisely why I'm still doggedly looking for an agent for my books rather than self-publishing. I'd like those extra steps of editing & validation that traditional publishing professionals provide. I think there are many millions of good writers out there that share this desire!
Ironically, this is why I'm no longer with a trad publisher for my novels. Took me a year to find an agent. Took him two months to get me a 2-book contract. After publishing 6 novels, my writing (which was always pretty good) had developed past the point where it fell comfortably in the category of commercial fiction and had stepped at least one foot into the category known as literature. My publisher no longer had a slick marketing channel for the kind of work I was doing. Even my (now erstwhile) agent finally told me, "Everyone wants romance. Or they want erotica. Or they want both. Your fiction makes people think. Most readers don't want to do that."
This makes me so frustrated ? Sad? I’m writing to see where the road takes me. Maybe publishing maybe just the creative outlet. But reading that there are too many of us writing and there should be some form of gatekeeping so only the “trained” “qualified “ “apprentices” can continue writing just reads to me as a way to create another divide in such a divided world.
Maybe I’ll go back to running where all are welcome.
I don't see where you would fit in as a 'wannabe writer', Melissa. It's clear you've had experience with writing, so you're not who I'm talking about here.
I wish you would write about this. I'd love to see another viewpoint.
I’m all solo here. I make typos even when I edit days before I post. I use effect and affect in the wrong places sometime. I’m a social worker. They don’t pay us very well. I’d love the chance to work with others and learn. But there it is - access vs aptitude. I am in a phase where I am working to stay out of my head and avoid imposter syndrome and write. I’m considering it practice . So I practice weekly for now.
Do I think I can write ? Yes - I’ve been published in textbooks and journals. (There is no money there btw) But this is different. This is storytelling . And it takes practice .
Well you’re in good company, dear. Typos, imposter syndrome, insecurities—the story of my writing life. And not just mine. Why do you think we all hang around together? 😏
There are no wannabe writers. Writing is self-expression. A few more substack writers aren’t going to break the internet. There are billions of websites, what is one more voice?
It might be well-intentioned, but it is an elitist post. There are no imposters on substack. Everyone who wants to write should write. It will be sloppy at first and will improve with practice.
My definition of a wannabe is someone who wants the title without putting in the work. It's not someone who wants to be a writer and then does whatever it takes in order to do that.
So in that sense, there are millions of wannabes and they hog up space and make it harder for those other writers to get anywhere, no matter how much effort they put into it.
This isn't about Substack especially. It's universal and it's a growing problem. As the statistics I presented have shown.
Hello Ramona, who decides what enough grunt work is enough? I wrote over 1,300 blof posts over the last three years, is that enough? I understand your frustration, but eventually the cream of the crop always rises.
I did my apprenticeship from way way across the globe in Australia, with the brilliantly professional team at Cornerstones Literary Consultancy in London. Three years of solid hard graft via email and copious attachments.
Not only did I learn more than I could have thought possible, but I loved every minute. There were days where I could have just walked away as my style was dismantled and rebuilt, but it was the best apprenticeship ever.
As an indie writer (my choice), I would never have opted to publish a word if I hadn't walked that path.
If writers can, I suggest they enrol somewhere, anywhere - but please do the groundwork.
That's all I ask. Do the groundwork. I predict we would have fewer writers out there if they tried it. It's not for the foolish or the faint-hearted. 💕
Nov 10, 2023·edited Nov 10, 2023Liked by Ramona Grigg
Exactly. I think one has to put one's ego aside and accept there are accomplished folk like yourself who can impart the necessaries. It's no good thinking 'I know it all!'
Even now, 14+ books later, I am learning, learning, learning. It's ever-expanding.
I think every good writer understands the need to go on learning. That constant need to improve is such an important part of our craft. Maybe that's what bothers me so much. It's the good writers who work the hardest, yet so many of them can't even be seen over those giant crowds of mediocre upstarts.
The sad thing for me as an indie is that when I first started in 2008, the quality of indie writers was seriously spectacular. Now? Amazon et al are filled with such dross and the plethora, as you say, is drowning the good ones completely. And giving indies a bad name - despite that those of us who've been in the trade for more than 10 years, spend a fortune on editing, line editing, cover design and formatting. Ah well, c'est la vie.
Hard to believe, but there was a time when publishers outnumbered authors: that was in the mid-19th century in Europe. I've been reading about cultural changes like that in Orlando Figes's The Europeans.
Not that I've read. Writers were sought for serial and book publishing. Literacy had spread; publishing was cheaper; books and newspapers moved by train on a wildly expanded network as opposed to any other methods.
Yeah, I'm sure it is a new term. I just see it as a huge pile of manuscripts toppling off of somebody's desk.
I remember the talk in the eighties about the end of publishing as we knew it. That was when the internet was in its infancy and nobody could have predicted what is happening now.
Yes! I'd forgotten that. When I worked at U of M they tried to wean us from our IBM Selectrics to some fancy but decidedly clunky and flawed new word processor. We trained on it for a couple of weeks until they took mercy on us and gave us back our IBMs.
Do blogs lead to a life in publishing? In legacy publishing over the years authors have been pushed to have a website, blog, book trailers, social media presence, blog tours, but none of that really makes an author. Those are by-products, PR vehicles, audience-enhancers.
I doubt if many blogs will ever lead to the standard form of publishing. I've seen reports of some that have but they're rare. But legacy publishing is dying out and the internet is the thing, it seems. (Judging by some of those numbers.)
Some of the finest essayists are bloggers. Do they get the respect a print essayist does? Probably not, but the potential is there to draw a much larger readership. I want to be able to find them, and I don't want to have to sift through mountains of garbage to do that.
I don't know what the solution is, but it looks like blogging is here to stay. It can't hurt to draw attention to the problems all those temporary wannabes present.
And how do you see the Fiction market growing here, as opposed to the Bloggers' Market? It seems that as many great fiction writers as there are here, it's the tech writers, pop culturalists, and political writers I see on top of the Leaderboard -- with 29 other categories -- while we have two: Fiction and Literature, and they're both interchangable (with not a lot of "fiction"). And now Lit magazines are closing their doors? Will the online Literary market pick up? What if the big houses were to turn their attention to online rather than paper, out of necessity, because everyone wants a "paperless" society? The "tree-huggers" have won, and paper productivity has dropped? The price of books sky rocket, and it's sink or swim, so they go online. Do you think they'd go after those Indie writers that are making six figure incomes? (I don't know if that's true, but I've heard they exist.) And what better way to get rid of the competition than buying them off?
Your numbers don't read well for me, do they? Unlike you, I haven't been writing and publishing all my life. I've been writing, endlessly, for all my life. At home, at work, any chance I could, just not publishing. With 600 million bloggers glutting the market, how big is the fiction market? That's gotta be a couple hundred million. "Lucy, it's getting really crowded out here!" I guess that means the most we can hope for is carving out our own little plot and planting our flags. I better resign myself to the fact that I'm never gonna make more than a couple hundred bucks a year.
I'm proud of the stories I've put up on my 'Stack though, and I doubt if I'll ever quit. What would I do then? Maybe I shouldn't be so pessimistic about the future -- my future -- and writing online? Who knows, maybe I'll be THAT one? The guy that hits it big because I put up a story that resonates with the readers? It goes viral, world-wide. Tugs at the heartstrings, and all that stuff. And maybe they'll all subscribe to my paid page because they want to support me? 22,500 paid subscribers! 300,000 Subscribers! 300,000 out of 8 billion?
Well, with those staggering odds against me, I can still dream...and THAT'S what I'm holding onto. My dreams.
I agree that online fiction undeservedly gets short shrift. I don't know why, and it's a shame. But maybe that's temporary until readers get to know those of you who write fiction and begin to get comfortable with reading fictional works here and elsewhere online.
You all may have to join together to make that happen, but who's more creative than fiction writers? I wish I had an answer. One thing I have to say, though.
I can't help but think of all the famous published authors who never had formal training as a writer, never got a college degree, never finished high school. Writing 101 is basic composition. I wrote for a presidential campaign blog without taking writing 101 or politics 101 and everyone I worked with thought I had an M.A. I got that years later.
Writing is hard work, and it is something any intelligent person can teach themselves more about. For many writers, it is something that is innate with the person, as is the way with many of the arts. In today's world it is very easy for anyone from any background to be able to write on line, share content, art, photography, music, there are no gatekeepers.
It's a beautiful thing to encourage people to try writing online. Some will succeed and some will fail.
I used Writing 101 as shorthand for learning the basics. and not as a prerequisite. I've had no formal training either, and don't have a college degree, but I learned first where to look for likely material and the sources I would need.
I bought books on writing and took more out of the library, I hung around writers, I audited classes, I went to seminars and symposiums and conferences, and I did all that long before I ever submitted a piece of my writing. I knew I had a lot to learn before I could do that.
It didn't happen overnight. It took years of working toward it. It might have been faster and easier if I'd had formal training, but I have to say, even the hard parts felt like kind of a privilege.
Maybe that's why the sort of unearned cache I wrote about here just bites my ass.
And on the flip side, people with MA's and MFA's often don't get published. It's luck of the draw. I sometimes think, hey what about me, I've been doing this forever, but in the long run, I get that some people make it and some don't. Would I like to have my work formally published, absolutely. There are a lot of things I would like to have. It is what it is.
Well said. I spent 24 years in the Marines. I achieved the rank of Master Gunnery Sergeant (E-9)—the top 1% of the 1%.
Now, I write. I love writing because I can share my passion for finance. I don't want someone telling me I can't write because they spent a career in writing.
I had a career. I traveled the world, including war zones. Should I not be able to write because I didn't become a writer in my 20s?
If I can sell books on Amazon, anyone can. That is what makes this such a wonderful world.
We all can become elitist. I can frown upon people who are not Marines. Or I can share what I learned over the years.
Joshua, I agree 100% with you. You've had a fascinating life that many would like to read about. The other part of that is that a lot of people change careers at least once in their lives and there also also many writers that start writing later in life, or finally publish later in life.
What you wrote was true. I believe that talent and hard work will win in the end.
That said, it's difficult to read a post that rambles on and is so discursive and ill-ordered that it's impossible to finish and then realize that not only has your mind been sullied, but the post is getting a great deal of compliments, even from writers who know better. In the spirit of the Emperor and his new clothes, there are many writers who are naked. But no one has an incentive to point it out.
There are pros and cons to pretty much everything involving the internet. (Okay, well anything at all, really.)
But between self-publishing books and blogging and even super shortform content like Tik Tok, Twitter, Threads, and so forth, the competition for eyeballs is fierce, especially for fiction.
It was fascinating/depressing to watch fiction agents/editors drowning in submissions. It went from having to wait for a couple of months to get a rejection from an agent to "If you don't hear back, it's a no." And then editors started doing the same thing with agents because they were getting too many submissions from agents.
The good for us is that Substack has given us an avenue to reach enough of those eyeballs to make it financially worthwhile to keep writing.
You make a good point. Self-publishing and the internet have changed everything. I stopped submitting to the traditional outlets long ago. I just grew tired of the wait times and the demands, and I see I'm not alone. They're having to change with the times and nobody seems to know what's coming next.
The profit factor when it comes to blogging is another story. It, too, has to do with the sheer numbers of participants. 😏
Interesting and true. I feel this way about the book publishing industry. There is a glut. Too much out there. Too much choice. (A bit like streaming platforms for that matter). I feel it almost devalues the craft and readers expect to pay less, expect books, writing for free. I've indie* and trad published (my latest was in indie release) but I also feel the digital and self-publishing space is part of the problem. Sure, the freedom and opportunity is there which is wonderful, and a reason I pursued indie publishing. I wanted people to read my work. As a writer, who doesn't want that? But there are standards that are lacking in publishing these days, and the digital online writing space in general. I don't know what the answer is. And it's kind of off topic, but it's something that has been making me pause to think and consider what's next? Discoverability and reach are becoming huge issues for all publishers and all authors. What would things look like if publishing wasn't this easy? Maybe the gatekeepers are necessary. Food for thought.
*To be clear, my indie books are all published to a trad standard and have gone through rigorous developmental, copy and proofreading edits, and have professional designed covers.
Thanks for this, Jodi. I didn't get into the devaluing, but it's maybe the saddest of all. We are expected to do our best and do it for nothing, and that's demoralizing. Good for you for going the indie route. You're doing it your way and doing it well.
But there's still that unanswerable question: what would publishing look like if the internet weren't so wide open? What could we do differently to make everything about it more equitable?
I hope this helps to open doors to that conversation.
This post really hit me. Hard. I feel conflicted. I remember my first blog. I wanted to get my writing in front of others so that I could get feedback. Why not use this new Internet web blog-thingy?
So, here I am, 20 years later, still writing. I feel like the ease of publishing has actually pushed me to write more. Yes, I have no formal training. No MFA. No writer’s retreats. Just writing to connect, both as an educator and a amateur poet.
As a teacher, blogging about my experiences has helped me connect with educators worldwide. As a poet, publishing a few poems online gave me the courage to submit to literary journals. Once I started submitting, I stopped sharing poems online because of submission guidelines. Still, the community grew, and continues to grow.
The writing community, similar to the educator community, is welcoming and inclusive, and I’m grateful. Perhaps Griggs is right: I’m clogging up the Internet with my thoughts, anecdotes, and a few poems. I’ve always assumed that the best writers and pieces would float to the top.
Selfishly, I will keep writing and posting and submitting on a continuous loop. The more I connect with others, the more I want to write and share what I’ve written with others.
Okay, enough of that. I never, ever, EVER said bloggers shouldn't blog. I thought I made it clear that I was talking about non-writers. Fly-by-nights. Egotists who think they can call themselves writers without caring about how or what they write.
They're not YOU! My goodness, you've been blogging for 20 years! You should be pissed, too, at those phony newcomers who do nothing but take up space. You're not clogging up the internet, they are.
Now, grab my pinky finger and swear you'll never think these thoughts again.
Is my insecurity a part of my writer’s identity? I guess after so many rejection emails, I start to wonder where I stand in the crowd. Am I a writer? Am I just an amateur? Either way, I don’t pay much attention to the Egotists. I guess it doesn’t matter as long as I keep writing.
I knew a gal once who dreamed of being either a rock star or an opera singer. The only problem? She often couldn't hold a tune. In church, I'd watch the sound engineers routinely turn her mic down when she'd try to harmonize, while they turned up the volume on my mic. She wasn't a terrible singer, but she also didn't have the kind of flexibility in her vocal range that was immediately impressive. After high school, she went and got her bachelor's in music and performance! Why? Because no one told her, "Hey, love, you aren't innately gifted at singing." I'm not sure when or how she pivoted after college into law school, but it was genuinely a wonderful fit. She was smart, good in school and had a good heart—she lives a very happy life now as far as I know. But I've always wondered if she was ever mad at the adults in her life for encouraging her to spend so many years pursuing a creative expression that wasn't innately borne inside her. Or if she was glad she saw it through but was smart enough to know when to move on to a different career path.
Sometimes I think we do writers a disservice in the same way, too. I think giving people access to easily publish whatever pops into their heads does create a false sense of forward motion and potential. I also think a decade of every business getting into "content marketing" and "blogging" really kicked us in the shins when it came to the art of storytelling. We rewarded buzzfeed listicles with algorithm spotlights and look where that got everybody—replaced by robots!
Anyways, great writing as always, Mona, and lots to chew on here. For me, I'm always on the hunt for the natural born storytellers—the folks who observe life or cull through research or create imaginary worlds and then pull it all together in an irresistible way for the rest of us to step inside. That kind of writing is the fruit of intention, passion and craft. And I have at least a little bit of faith that it will find a way to rise to the right set of readers.
Such good stuff here, Amanda. Thank you. I've written many times before about why I think so many people gravitate to writing, whether or not it suits them or even really interests them. It's because writing comes easy. We've been putting words into sentences since childhood and the process is both familiar and comfortable.
We also read. That too is familiar and comfortable and the next step is, 'how hard could it be?' And now that everyone is doing it, it doesn't appear to be hard at all.
I'm not the best writer in the world but as I watch this watering-down of a craft I love and see truly wonderful writers floundering by the wayside, I yearn for a kind of purity I know will never happen. So I'm willing to compromise: if the wannabes are going to publish what they've written, at least show some effort. Work toward some kind of growth.
I'm targeting those who don't even try. They make it hard for the rest of us and I'd give anything to see them gone.
I feel like this post needs an audio component. Or at least comic-style speech bubbles.
POW! BAM! THWIP! BLAM! Pfssssssssst! 🤣
If it were harder for the ego-fueled nitwits to slide into the arena, there'd be fewer bloggers, just as many writers, and maybe a little less indigestion. I'd still be dinking around with words on Facebook and fielding the occasional fan asking when I'm going to publish a book. I might be working harder to get something published in a traditional journal. Maybe that's the take-away for me here.
The bloggers aren't going away. We've created a monster! (says the woman who's been blogging for more than 15 years.) But maybe we can at least shame the bad ones into finding something else to do. Their hearts aren't really into it anyway.
The bad ones shouldn't be hard to find. They put everything in writing.
"As for writing? I’m going to suggest something radically different from what other writers have suggested. I’m going to suggest that you don’t write. Period. Give writing the finger and tell it to fuck off. For me, that approach was a tremendous relief, a two-ton weight lifted off my shoulders. Pistol-whipping someone into writing sounds absurd, doesn’t it? Expecting writers to pistol whip themselves is even more so."
And yet here you are, writing and doing it well. (That piece kept me reading right to the end and wanting more. Mission accomplished!) As for pistol-whipping, writers do a good enough job of that themselves. We're full of doubts and anxiety, yet most of us wouldn't even think of quitting. don't quit. We can only think about how to end the doubts and anxiety in order to fulfill our purpose and get the job done.
I think I need to hear more about how you gave writing the finger and thus liberated yourself. I might understand it better if you weren't, you know, writing about it! 😏
Drawing and image-making is a pre-verbal process that helps address the doubts and anxiety. As I wrote, I needed to do a deeper kind of work that writing itself cannot do. Therapy isn’t necessarily verbal. This is the value of doing therapy with a competent professional. It took tremendous courage to admit when writing (verbal processing) wasn't working for me, and that did not make me an incompetent person. There’s nothing wrong with not being a writer, or being a non-writer. That is what helped me give writing the finger and paradoxically helped me to write. Many of us feel compelled to write out of that sense of being worthless if not writing. My response is that I am a human being, not a human doing.
This is precisely why I'm still doggedly looking for an agent for my books rather than self-publishing. I'd like those extra steps of editing & validation that traditional publishing professionals provide. I think there are many millions of good writers out there that share this desire!
But I would say an agent isn't going to help. One has to complete Writing 101 first, otherwise an agent won't even look at one's work.
This is true. I was jumping ahead!
Ironically, this is why I'm no longer with a trad publisher for my novels. Took me a year to find an agent. Took him two months to get me a 2-book contract. After publishing 6 novels, my writing (which was always pretty good) had developed past the point where it fell comfortably in the category of commercial fiction and had stepped at least one foot into the category known as literature. My publisher no longer had a slick marketing channel for the kind of work I was doing. Even my (now erstwhile) agent finally told me, "Everyone wants romance. Or they want erotica. Or they want both. Your fiction makes people think. Most readers don't want to do that."
So now I publish my own work.
I sure wish there was more of a market for fiction that makes people think.
This makes me so frustrated ? Sad? I’m writing to see where the road takes me. Maybe publishing maybe just the creative outlet. But reading that there are too many of us writing and there should be some form of gatekeeping so only the “trained” “qualified “ “apprentices” can continue writing just reads to me as a way to create another divide in such a divided world.
Maybe I’ll go back to running where all are welcome.
Or maybe I’ll write about this
I don't see where you would fit in as a 'wannabe writer', Melissa. It's clear you've had experience with writing, so you're not who I'm talking about here.
I wish you would write about this. I'd love to see another viewpoint.
I’m all solo here. I make typos even when I edit days before I post. I use effect and affect in the wrong places sometime. I’m a social worker. They don’t pay us very well. I’d love the chance to work with others and learn. But there it is - access vs aptitude. I am in a phase where I am working to stay out of my head and avoid imposter syndrome and write. I’m considering it practice . So I practice weekly for now.
Do I think I can write ? Yes - I’ve been published in textbooks and journals. (There is no money there btw) But this is different. This is storytelling . And it takes practice .
Well you’re in good company, dear. Typos, imposter syndrome, insecurities—the story of my writing life. And not just mine. Why do you think we all hang around together? 😏
Come hang around any time.
Thank you !
There are no wannabe writers. Writing is self-expression. A few more substack writers aren’t going to break the internet. There are billions of websites, what is one more voice?
It might be well-intentioned, but it is an elitist post. There are no imposters on substack. Everyone who wants to write should write. It will be sloppy at first and will improve with practice.
My definition of a wannabe is someone who wants the title without putting in the work. It's not someone who wants to be a writer and then does whatever it takes in order to do that.
So in that sense, there are millions of wannabes and they hog up space and make it harder for those other writers to get anywhere, no matter how much effort they put into it.
This isn't about Substack especially. It's universal and it's a growing problem. As the statistics I presented have shown.
Hello Ramona, who decides what enough grunt work is enough? I wrote over 1,300 blof posts over the last three years, is that enough? I understand your frustration, but eventually the cream of the crop always rises.
Well said!
I recommend that if writing is something that fulfills you. Most certainly do not stop.
Indeed. Writing 101. Well said, Ramona.
I did my apprenticeship from way way across the globe in Australia, with the brilliantly professional team at Cornerstones Literary Consultancy in London. Three years of solid hard graft via email and copious attachments.
Not only did I learn more than I could have thought possible, but I loved every minute. There were days where I could have just walked away as my style was dismantled and rebuilt, but it was the best apprenticeship ever.
As an indie writer (my choice), I would never have opted to publish a word if I hadn't walked that path.
If writers can, I suggest they enrol somewhere, anywhere - but please do the groundwork.
That's all I ask. Do the groundwork. I predict we would have fewer writers out there if they tried it. It's not for the foolish or the faint-hearted. 💕
Exactly. I think one has to put one's ego aside and accept there are accomplished folk like yourself who can impart the necessaries. It's no good thinking 'I know it all!'
Even now, 14+ books later, I am learning, learning, learning. It's ever-expanding.
I think every good writer understands the need to go on learning. That constant need to improve is such an important part of our craft. Maybe that's what bothers me so much. It's the good writers who work the hardest, yet so many of them can't even be seen over those giant crowds of mediocre upstarts.
Getting tired of it.
The sad thing for me as an indie is that when I first started in 2008, the quality of indie writers was seriously spectacular. Now? Amazon et al are filled with such dross and the plethora, as you say, is drowning the good ones completely. And giving indies a bad name - despite that those of us who've been in the trade for more than 10 years, spend a fortune on editing, line editing, cover design and formatting. Ah well, c'est la vie.
Hard to believe, but there was a time when publishers outnumbered authors: that was in the mid-19th century in Europe. I've been reading about cultural changes like that in Orlando Figes's The Europeans.
Wow, a writers' market! Did they actively recruit writers or did they still have slush piles?
Not that I've read. Writers were sought for serial and book publishing. Literacy had spread; publishing was cheaper; books and newspapers moved by train on a wildly expanded network as opposed to any other methods.
And slush pile is a fairly new term: https://www.theawl.com/2010/07/very-recent-history-the-slush-pile/
Yeah, I'm sure it is a new term. I just see it as a huge pile of manuscripts toppling off of somebody's desk.
I remember the talk in the eighties about the end of publishing as we knew it. That was when the internet was in its infancy and nobody could have predicted what is happening now.
Remember "the paperless office"?
Yes! I'd forgotten that. When I worked at U of M they tried to wean us from our IBM Selectrics to some fancy but decidedly clunky and flawed new word processor. We trained on it for a couple of weeks until they took mercy on us and gave us back our IBMs.
Do blogs lead to a life in publishing? In legacy publishing over the years authors have been pushed to have a website, blog, book trailers, social media presence, blog tours, but none of that really makes an author. Those are by-products, PR vehicles, audience-enhancers.
I doubt if many blogs will ever lead to the standard form of publishing. I've seen reports of some that have but they're rare. But legacy publishing is dying out and the internet is the thing, it seems. (Judging by some of those numbers.)
Some of the finest essayists are bloggers. Do they get the respect a print essayist does? Probably not, but the potential is there to draw a much larger readership. I want to be able to find them, and I don't want to have to sift through mountains of garbage to do that.
I don't know what the solution is, but it looks like blogging is here to stay. It can't hurt to draw attention to the problems all those temporary wannabes present.
And how do you see the Fiction market growing here, as opposed to the Bloggers' Market? It seems that as many great fiction writers as there are here, it's the tech writers, pop culturalists, and political writers I see on top of the Leaderboard -- with 29 other categories -- while we have two: Fiction and Literature, and they're both interchangable (with not a lot of "fiction"). And now Lit magazines are closing their doors? Will the online Literary market pick up? What if the big houses were to turn their attention to online rather than paper, out of necessity, because everyone wants a "paperless" society? The "tree-huggers" have won, and paper productivity has dropped? The price of books sky rocket, and it's sink or swim, so they go online. Do you think they'd go after those Indie writers that are making six figure incomes? (I don't know if that's true, but I've heard they exist.) And what better way to get rid of the competition than buying them off?
Your numbers don't read well for me, do they? Unlike you, I haven't been writing and publishing all my life. I've been writing, endlessly, for all my life. At home, at work, any chance I could, just not publishing. With 600 million bloggers glutting the market, how big is the fiction market? That's gotta be a couple hundred million. "Lucy, it's getting really crowded out here!" I guess that means the most we can hope for is carving out our own little plot and planting our flags. I better resign myself to the fact that I'm never gonna make more than a couple hundred bucks a year.
I'm proud of the stories I've put up on my 'Stack though, and I doubt if I'll ever quit. What would I do then? Maybe I shouldn't be so pessimistic about the future -- my future -- and writing online? Who knows, maybe I'll be THAT one? The guy that hits it big because I put up a story that resonates with the readers? It goes viral, world-wide. Tugs at the heartstrings, and all that stuff. And maybe they'll all subscribe to my paid page because they want to support me? 22,500 paid subscribers! 300,000 Subscribers! 300,000 out of 8 billion?
Well, with those staggering odds against me, I can still dream...and THAT'S what I'm holding onto. My dreams.
I agree that online fiction undeservedly gets short shrift. I don't know why, and it's a shame. But maybe that's temporary until readers get to know those of you who write fiction and begin to get comfortable with reading fictional works here and elsewhere online.
You all may have to join together to make that happen, but who's more creative than fiction writers? I wish I had an answer. One thing I have to say, though.
Don't you dare give up!
I can't help but think of all the famous published authors who never had formal training as a writer, never got a college degree, never finished high school. Writing 101 is basic composition. I wrote for a presidential campaign blog without taking writing 101 or politics 101 and everyone I worked with thought I had an M.A. I got that years later.
Writing is hard work, and it is something any intelligent person can teach themselves more about. For many writers, it is something that is innate with the person, as is the way with many of the arts. In today's world it is very easy for anyone from any background to be able to write on line, share content, art, photography, music, there are no gatekeepers.
It's a beautiful thing to encourage people to try writing online. Some will succeed and some will fail.
I used Writing 101 as shorthand for learning the basics. and not as a prerequisite. I've had no formal training either, and don't have a college degree, but I learned first where to look for likely material and the sources I would need.
I bought books on writing and took more out of the library, I hung around writers, I audited classes, I went to seminars and symposiums and conferences, and I did all that long before I ever submitted a piece of my writing. I knew I had a lot to learn before I could do that.
It didn't happen overnight. It took years of working toward it. It might have been faster and easier if I'd had formal training, but I have to say, even the hard parts felt like kind of a privilege.
Maybe that's why the sort of unearned cache I wrote about here just bites my ass.
And on the flip side, people with MA's and MFA's often don't get published. It's luck of the draw. I sometimes think, hey what about me, I've been doing this forever, but in the long run, I get that some people make it and some don't. Would I like to have my work formally published, absolutely. There are a lot of things I would like to have. It is what it is.
It'll happen! Your writing is wonderful and your photography is an added gift.
Thank you Ramona! I definitely feel like Substack is a wonderful place to be sharing my work. I'm grateful for community here, I'm grateful for you!
💕❤️💕
Indeed, it is a crapshoot.
Well said. I spent 24 years in the Marines. I achieved the rank of Master Gunnery Sergeant (E-9)—the top 1% of the 1%.
Now, I write. I love writing because I can share my passion for finance. I don't want someone telling me I can't write because they spent a career in writing.
I had a career. I traveled the world, including war zones. Should I not be able to write because I didn't become a writer in my 20s?
If I can sell books on Amazon, anyone can. That is what makes this such a wonderful world.
We all can become elitist. I can frown upon people who are not Marines. Or I can share what I learned over the years.
Joshua, I agree 100% with you. You've had a fascinating life that many would like to read about. The other part of that is that a lot of people change careers at least once in their lives and there also also many writers that start writing later in life, or finally publish later in life.
It seems you are talking about creative writing. I don't do that, my stuff is analysis, conjecture, theory formation on political or economic topics.
Yes, I am talking about creative writing. That's mainly what I focus on here.
I’m not here to be a writer. 😃
Different genre
Don't sell yourself short, Taryn. You're an extraordinary writer and artist. I can't wait to follow along on your 100 day + 50 journey!
Ramona,
What you wrote was true. I believe that talent and hard work will win in the end.
That said, it's difficult to read a post that rambles on and is so discursive and ill-ordered that it's impossible to finish and then realize that not only has your mind been sullied, but the post is getting a great deal of compliments, even from writers who know better. In the spirit of the Emperor and his new clothes, there are many writers who are naked. But no one has an incentive to point it out.
I know what you mean, David. I don't feel the need to finish any piece that doesn't hold my interest. Too many other dazzlers out there!
There are pros and cons to pretty much everything involving the internet. (Okay, well anything at all, really.)
But between self-publishing books and blogging and even super shortform content like Tik Tok, Twitter, Threads, and so forth, the competition for eyeballs is fierce, especially for fiction.
It was fascinating/depressing to watch fiction agents/editors drowning in submissions. It went from having to wait for a couple of months to get a rejection from an agent to "If you don't hear back, it's a no." And then editors started doing the same thing with agents because they were getting too many submissions from agents.
The good for us is that Substack has given us an avenue to reach enough of those eyeballs to make it financially worthwhile to keep writing.
You make a good point. Self-publishing and the internet have changed everything. I stopped submitting to the traditional outlets long ago. I just grew tired of the wait times and the demands, and I see I'm not alone. They're having to change with the times and nobody seems to know what's coming next.
The profit factor when it comes to blogging is another story. It, too, has to do with the sheer numbers of participants. 😏
We feel lucky to have started on Substack when we did before the competition got even more fierce than it was two and a half years ago.
Well, I'd say it's a bit more than that! But Substack is growing so rapidly I wonder if anyone knows which direction its taking?
Interesting and true. I feel this way about the book publishing industry. There is a glut. Too much out there. Too much choice. (A bit like streaming platforms for that matter). I feel it almost devalues the craft and readers expect to pay less, expect books, writing for free. I've indie* and trad published (my latest was in indie release) but I also feel the digital and self-publishing space is part of the problem. Sure, the freedom and opportunity is there which is wonderful, and a reason I pursued indie publishing. I wanted people to read my work. As a writer, who doesn't want that? But there are standards that are lacking in publishing these days, and the digital online writing space in general. I don't know what the answer is. And it's kind of off topic, but it's something that has been making me pause to think and consider what's next? Discoverability and reach are becoming huge issues for all publishers and all authors. What would things look like if publishing wasn't this easy? Maybe the gatekeepers are necessary. Food for thought.
*To be clear, my indie books are all published to a trad standard and have gone through rigorous developmental, copy and proofreading edits, and have professional designed covers.
Thanks for this, Jodi. I didn't get into the devaluing, but it's maybe the saddest of all. We are expected to do our best and do it for nothing, and that's demoralizing. Good for you for going the indie route. You're doing it your way and doing it well.
But there's still that unanswerable question: what would publishing look like if the internet weren't so wide open? What could we do differently to make everything about it more equitable?
I hope this helps to open doors to that conversation.
This post really hit me. Hard. I feel conflicted. I remember my first blog. I wanted to get my writing in front of others so that I could get feedback. Why not use this new Internet web blog-thingy?
So, here I am, 20 years later, still writing. I feel like the ease of publishing has actually pushed me to write more. Yes, I have no formal training. No MFA. No writer’s retreats. Just writing to connect, both as an educator and a amateur poet.
As a teacher, blogging about my experiences has helped me connect with educators worldwide. As a poet, publishing a few poems online gave me the courage to submit to literary journals. Once I started submitting, I stopped sharing poems online because of submission guidelines. Still, the community grew, and continues to grow.
The writing community, similar to the educator community, is welcoming and inclusive, and I’m grateful. Perhaps Griggs is right: I’m clogging up the Internet with my thoughts, anecdotes, and a few poems. I’ve always assumed that the best writers and pieces would float to the top.
Selfishly, I will keep writing and posting and submitting on a continuous loop. The more I connect with others, the more I want to write and share what I’ve written with others.
Okay, enough of that. I never, ever, EVER said bloggers shouldn't blog. I thought I made it clear that I was talking about non-writers. Fly-by-nights. Egotists who think they can call themselves writers without caring about how or what they write.
They're not YOU! My goodness, you've been blogging for 20 years! You should be pissed, too, at those phony newcomers who do nothing but take up space. You're not clogging up the internet, they are.
Now, grab my pinky finger and swear you'll never think these thoughts again.
Swear? 😉
Is my insecurity a part of my writer’s identity? I guess after so many rejection emails, I start to wonder where I stand in the crowd. Am I a writer? Am I just an amateur? Either way, I don’t pay much attention to the Egotists. I guess it doesn’t matter as long as I keep writing.
Thanks for the pep talk! I pinky swear.
Of course you’re a writer. Never doubt that. And thanks for indulging me in the pinky swear. 😎
I knew a gal once who dreamed of being either a rock star or an opera singer. The only problem? She often couldn't hold a tune. In church, I'd watch the sound engineers routinely turn her mic down when she'd try to harmonize, while they turned up the volume on my mic. She wasn't a terrible singer, but she also didn't have the kind of flexibility in her vocal range that was immediately impressive. After high school, she went and got her bachelor's in music and performance! Why? Because no one told her, "Hey, love, you aren't innately gifted at singing." I'm not sure when or how she pivoted after college into law school, but it was genuinely a wonderful fit. She was smart, good in school and had a good heart—she lives a very happy life now as far as I know. But I've always wondered if she was ever mad at the adults in her life for encouraging her to spend so many years pursuing a creative expression that wasn't innately borne inside her. Or if she was glad she saw it through but was smart enough to know when to move on to a different career path.
Sometimes I think we do writers a disservice in the same way, too. I think giving people access to easily publish whatever pops into their heads does create a false sense of forward motion and potential. I also think a decade of every business getting into "content marketing" and "blogging" really kicked us in the shins when it came to the art of storytelling. We rewarded buzzfeed listicles with algorithm spotlights and look where that got everybody—replaced by robots!
Anyways, great writing as always, Mona, and lots to chew on here. For me, I'm always on the hunt for the natural born storytellers—the folks who observe life or cull through research or create imaginary worlds and then pull it all together in an irresistible way for the rest of us to step inside. That kind of writing is the fruit of intention, passion and craft. And I have at least a little bit of faith that it will find a way to rise to the right set of readers.
Beautifully put!
Such good stuff here, Amanda. Thank you. I've written many times before about why I think so many people gravitate to writing, whether or not it suits them or even really interests them. It's because writing comes easy. We've been putting words into sentences since childhood and the process is both familiar and comfortable.
We also read. That too is familiar and comfortable and the next step is, 'how hard could it be?' And now that everyone is doing it, it doesn't appear to be hard at all.
I'm not the best writer in the world but as I watch this watering-down of a craft I love and see truly wonderful writers floundering by the wayside, I yearn for a kind of purity I know will never happen. So I'm willing to compromise: if the wannabes are going to publish what they've written, at least show some effort. Work toward some kind of growth.
I'm targeting those who don't even try. They make it hard for the rest of us and I'd give anything to see them gone.
I feel like this post needs an audio component. Or at least comic-style speech bubbles.
POW! BAM! THWIP! BLAM! Pfssssssssst! 🤣
If it were harder for the ego-fueled nitwits to slide into the arena, there'd be fewer bloggers, just as many writers, and maybe a little less indigestion. I'd still be dinking around with words on Facebook and fielding the occasional fan asking when I'm going to publish a book. I might be working harder to get something published in a traditional journal. Maybe that's the take-away for me here.
Love the fire, Ramona. Coming in hot!
Yeah! Sound effects! That's what I need.
The bloggers aren't going away. We've created a monster! (says the woman who's been blogging for more than 15 years.) But maybe we can at least shame the bad ones into finding something else to do. Their hearts aren't really into it anyway.
The bad ones shouldn't be hard to find. They put everything in writing.
There’s an old saying in the tattoo industry that goes, “If you don’t belong, don’t be long,” and it works for this as well.
I wish! 😏
I’m with you. That’s why I wrote my piece on being a “accidental writer” yesterday. Many of us would-be writers would do well to give writing the middle finger and tell it to effe off, including myself. https://open.substack.com/pub/johnmoyermedlpcncc/p/the-accidental-writer?r=3p5dh&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
You wrote:
"As for writing? I’m going to suggest something radically different from what other writers have suggested. I’m going to suggest that you don’t write. Period. Give writing the finger and tell it to fuck off. For me, that approach was a tremendous relief, a two-ton weight lifted off my shoulders. Pistol-whipping someone into writing sounds absurd, doesn’t it? Expecting writers to pistol whip themselves is even more so."
And yet here you are, writing and doing it well. (That piece kept me reading right to the end and wanting more. Mission accomplished!) As for pistol-whipping, writers do a good enough job of that themselves. We're full of doubts and anxiety, yet most of us wouldn't even think of quitting. don't quit. We can only think about how to end the doubts and anxiety in order to fulfill our purpose and get the job done.
I think I need to hear more about how you gave writing the finger and thus liberated yourself. I might understand it better if you weren't, you know, writing about it! 😏
Drawing and image-making is a pre-verbal process that helps address the doubts and anxiety. As I wrote, I needed to do a deeper kind of work that writing itself cannot do. Therapy isn’t necessarily verbal. This is the value of doing therapy with a competent professional. It took tremendous courage to admit when writing (verbal processing) wasn't working for me, and that did not make me an incompetent person. There’s nothing wrong with not being a writer, or being a non-writer. That is what helped me give writing the finger and paradoxically helped me to write. Many of us feel compelled to write out of that sense of being worthless if not writing. My response is that I am a human being, not a human doing.
Here’s an updated essay: https://open.substack.com/pub/johnmoyermedlpcncc/p/the-accidental-writer?r=3p5dh&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web