I think it's okay to write this story. Sounds like you've done more than most people might've to connect with her family (many of whom have already passed away). If writing this winds up facilitating a connection with the rest of her family, then it would be all the better!
Well, friends, while I was waiting to hear from you (after I messed up and turned off the comments), I took my question to Twitter, where someone flagged Connie Schultz (who knows EVERYTHING, I'm sure of it) and Connie, in just a few words, set me straight.
She convinced me I have every right to tell this story in any way I choose, as any biographer would. Here is the link to my thread, with comments afterward.
Well, since she's dead, as are her children, I'd say it's fair game. I bet any other family members would be happy to see the story, since it would help them see a member of their family through a new lens and probably learn some things about her.
I mean, imagine turning the table. How would you feel if you stumbled on a story about your great-grandmother or something like that? Wouldn't you be curious to read something like this? I know I would.
If you're still hesitant, you could always try to find other surviving family members, but that could easily turn into a fool's errand.
Or you could use the album as inspiration to write a story with a similar character and a similar life.
Good points! I guess I would like to find something like that about a family member; especially one as interesting as this one.
I think I'll skip trying to locate family members. That was my first thought, but you're right--it could open up a big can of worms. If they find me and give me good reason to return the album to them, I'd do it, but someone in that family must have given it away before. I can't imagine why.
From my working knowledge of copyright law, here's the deal:
Case 1 : if, in your story, you reproduce her texts (ie. the photographs' captions), the only copyright issue would potentially arise only if either she's still alive or has been deceased for less than 50 years. In this case, the copyright for only those captions belongs to her (or her living relatives), and if you decide to strictly go the biographical route, her living relatives would generally have to give you permission to reproduce those excerpts . However, if you craft a loosely based or fictitious story centered around her and simply use those excerpts as quotes attributed to her, I don't believe you'd need to get permission from her living relatives - basically, all you'd be doing is 'retweeting' her.
Case 2 : If she's been deceased for more than 50 years, there's no potential copyright issue at all. You wouldn't need to get permission from her living relatives, and can write about her with reckless abandon.
Thanks so much, Dorian. She died in 1977, so not quite 50 years yet. Would the same apply to photographs of those pages and captions? For example, under a picture of a Suffragist poster, she writes something making fun of it. I love the picture (though as a feminist I'm a bit miffed. LOL) and would like to include it. But is it a 'no' because the caption is on the photo?
Photographs, regardless of whether captions are involved or not, are in of of themselves protected by copyright. The rights belong to the photographer himself / herself the instant the photo is taken. The same 50 year rule applies. In other words, you'd need to suss out who actually physically took those photos to determine who the copyright owner is / was. If said photographer has been deceased for 50 + years, no problem. If not, you'd have to negotiate permission to use 'em.
And I don't agree, as some commenters may have proposed, that those photos belong to you because you own the photo album. If I buy a poster of the film CASINO, I don't own the images used in that poster. See what I mean?
Generally, the rights to photographs need to be passed on from original owner to new owner contractually, or passed on via a photographer’s will or as personal property by any applicable laws of succession.
My suggestion? Develop your pitch, and approach living relatives. First try to just get them to give you written permission for use - they might go for it. If there's reistance, offer to have them transfer copyright to you for one dollar for a fixed period of time (a year? three years?) during which time you try to find a publisher for your story or close a book deal (or something similar). If you manage to do so within the fixed period of time, cool (if it's contingent on a book deal or some kind of funding, maybe opt to give them a fee of some sort or percentage of sales in exchange for rights in perpetuity). If you don't manage to land a publisher / book deal during that fixed period of time, the copyright reverts back to them.
In this way, you'd be leasing the copyright if / until you sell the story, but they have the security of regaining ownership if you don't (and also, you'd run out the clock, because again, after 50 years, it's a moot point).
I've been working tonight on finding relatives and I'm getting close.
I've thought about offering to return the album if they'll agree to let me write my story. I've always hoped some relative would want it.
Another wrinkle: there could be dozens of relatives. Who gets to make the decision, or do I have to get permission from everyone ever related to her or her husband?
This is such an intriguing story! I know you already got a satisfactory answer, but my 2¢: the photos were obtained in a way that made you the owner, and the woman and her children are not here to object. If I were her I’d love to have a second chance for people to know who I am. You know the old saying about dying twice?
I love the answers I'm getting here! Though I'm still in a fog about it. But it is an intriguing story and I've been sitting on it long enough. Time to work on a pitch and get it out there!
That sounds about right - this story seems intriguing, so it makes sense that your search for living relatives would be just as intriguing. Maybe you can write another story ABOUT your efforts to bring her story to life (hint: keep a diary).
In this case, succession rules the day. You'd probably hit your target by approaching the oldest grandchild.
The good news is that you're dealing with relatives a full generation away; they'll probably hand over copyright with no resistance at all, esp. since you'll also be approaching the 50 year mark after which point you wouldn't even need a copyright transfer.
I think it's okay to write this story. Sounds like you've done more than most people might've to connect with her family (many of whom have already passed away). If writing this winds up facilitating a connection with the rest of her family, then it would be all the better!
BTW, I'm already curious: what town in WI?
It would be great if it reached some of her family members, but I'd still write it as honestly as I can--which means warts and all.
She grew up in Sparta, spent part of her summers camping on the Dakota plains, and moved to Calif. sometime after she married.
Well, friends, while I was waiting to hear from you (after I messed up and turned off the comments), I took my question to Twitter, where someone flagged Connie Schultz (who knows EVERYTHING, I'm sure of it) and Connie, in just a few words, set me straight.
She convinced me I have every right to tell this story in any way I choose, as any biographer would. Here is the link to my thread, with comments afterward.
https://twitter.com/RamonaGrigg/status/1484307025328685056
Well, since she's dead, as are her children, I'd say it's fair game. I bet any other family members would be happy to see the story, since it would help them see a member of their family through a new lens and probably learn some things about her.
I mean, imagine turning the table. How would you feel if you stumbled on a story about your great-grandmother or something like that? Wouldn't you be curious to read something like this? I know I would.
If you're still hesitant, you could always try to find other surviving family members, but that could easily turn into a fool's errand.
Or you could use the album as inspiration to write a story with a similar character and a similar life.
Good points! I guess I would like to find something like that about a family member; especially one as interesting as this one.
I think I'll skip trying to locate family members. That was my first thought, but you're right--it could open up a big can of worms. If they find me and give me good reason to return the album to them, I'd do it, but someone in that family must have given it away before. I can't imagine why.
Hi Ramona.
From my working knowledge of copyright law, here's the deal:
Case 1 : if, in your story, you reproduce her texts (ie. the photographs' captions), the only copyright issue would potentially arise only if either she's still alive or has been deceased for less than 50 years. In this case, the copyright for only those captions belongs to her (or her living relatives), and if you decide to strictly go the biographical route, her living relatives would generally have to give you permission to reproduce those excerpts . However, if you craft a loosely based or fictitious story centered around her and simply use those excerpts as quotes attributed to her, I don't believe you'd need to get permission from her living relatives - basically, all you'd be doing is 'retweeting' her.
Case 2 : If she's been deceased for more than 50 years, there's no potential copyright issue at all. You wouldn't need to get permission from her living relatives, and can write about her with reckless abandon.
Thanks so much, Dorian. She died in 1977, so not quite 50 years yet. Would the same apply to photographs of those pages and captions? For example, under a picture of a Suffragist poster, she writes something making fun of it. I love the picture (though as a feminist I'm a bit miffed. LOL) and would like to include it. But is it a 'no' because the caption is on the photo?
Photographs, regardless of whether captions are involved or not, are in of of themselves protected by copyright. The rights belong to the photographer himself / herself the instant the photo is taken. The same 50 year rule applies. In other words, you'd need to suss out who actually physically took those photos to determine who the copyright owner is / was. If said photographer has been deceased for 50 + years, no problem. If not, you'd have to negotiate permission to use 'em.
Got it. Thank you!
And I don't agree, as some commenters may have proposed, that those photos belong to you because you own the photo album. If I buy a poster of the film CASINO, I don't own the images used in that poster. See what I mean?
Generally, the rights to photographs need to be passed on from original owner to new owner contractually, or passed on via a photographer’s will or as personal property by any applicable laws of succession.
That makes it much clearer. I don't know how I'll approach this now, but at least I know what I can't do. Thank you again.
My suggestion? Develop your pitch, and approach living relatives. First try to just get them to give you written permission for use - they might go for it. If there's reistance, offer to have them transfer copyright to you for one dollar for a fixed period of time (a year? three years?) during which time you try to find a publisher for your story or close a book deal (or something similar). If you manage to do so within the fixed period of time, cool (if it's contingent on a book deal or some kind of funding, maybe opt to give them a fee of some sort or percentage of sales in exchange for rights in perpetuity). If you don't manage to land a publisher / book deal during that fixed period of time, the copyright reverts back to them.
In this way, you'd be leasing the copyright if / until you sell the story, but they have the security of regaining ownership if you don't (and also, you'd run out the clock, because again, after 50 years, it's a moot point).
I've been working tonight on finding relatives and I'm getting close.
I've thought about offering to return the album if they'll agree to let me write my story. I've always hoped some relative would want it.
Another wrinkle: there could be dozens of relatives. Who gets to make the decision, or do I have to get permission from everyone ever related to her or her husband?
Permission is only necessary from the most direct relative. If there's a husband, it would probably be him.
This is such an intriguing story! I know you already got a satisfactory answer, but my 2¢: the photos were obtained in a way that made you the owner, and the woman and her children are not here to object. If I were her I’d love to have a second chance for people to know who I am. You know the old saying about dying twice?
I love the answers I'm getting here! Though I'm still in a fog about it. But it is an intriguing story and I've been sitting on it long enough. Time to work on a pitch and get it out there!
That sounds about right - this story seems intriguing, so it makes sense that your search for living relatives would be just as intriguing. Maybe you can write another story ABOUT your efforts to bring her story to life (hint: keep a diary).
In this case, succession rules the day. You'd probably hit your target by approaching the oldest grandchild.
The good news is that you're dealing with relatives a full generation away; they'll probably hand over copyright with no resistance at all, esp. since you'll also be approaching the 50 year mark after which point you wouldn't even need a copyright transfer.